RainbowFic Questions & Suggestions August 5th - 13th

[silvercat17]

(dates are approximate)

This is the place for any questions or suggestions you have for rainbowfic , rainbowlists , and rainbowlounge . This includes 'how does this work?', 'does this supply or style count for this?' and 'what are the limits on this?'

There are a good amount of things that have fuzzy limits or definitions and that's okay. You're allowed to use your judgement of how to use a list, supply, style, etc. But I also want to acknowledge that not everyone is comfortable with ambiguity and that some people need more concrete answers. So this is where to get those (and then it'll be added to the appropriate page). But there are no tag/prompt/writing police here (I don't have energy for that shit)

Anyone can answer (please, if you've been here longer, jump in and help). Please take time to check what the different rainbowlists pages say because they might have the answer, but don't be afraid to ask something that seems obvious: it may be that I need to clarify a description or q&a. Checking the tags on rainbowfic to see how something has been used is also a good way to get answers, or at least precedent.

I'll check these posts at least once a week and I'll be using these as a resource to find things that need to be added or improved in the q&as.

Edit relevant to discussion at hand:

- Mosaic current definition: A piece that is a crossover between canons; you may write a crossover with a media source, but this may not be your canon - it must either be AU or a very minor aspect of the main canon, since we're not a fanfic comm

- Collage current definition: Borrow another person's canon; be sure to ask first!

Neither have any q&as or comments related to them that I'm finding. Somebody could go through the tags to see what people have done, but that'd be a serious time commitment

Comments

Fan content for Crossovers (Mosaic)

[silvercat17]

I'd like to clarify the amount of fan material is okay for a crossover with some examples because 'AU or minor aspect of the main canon' is vague. So people who have been here a long time: what do you consider acceptable or unacceptable?

Re: AU

[wyld_dandelyon]

I would suggest that in this kind of post, where you are encouraging people to get to know how things happen around here, you might want to try to be aware of jargon-y things like using abbreviations & such, and put their meaning after their use in parentheses, or as a footnote, or something.

I'm pretty sure, after reflecting on it, that AU = Alternate Universe, because I think that makes more sense in this context than AU = the atomic symbol for gold. (And never mind that the atomic symbol still comes faster to the tip of my mind than other things AU could be short for.)

Re: AU

[silvercat17]

That's a good point and yes, au = alternate universe

Re: Fan content for Crossovers (Mosaic)

[finch]

The impression I got was always that the characters should be yours but the setting could be borrowed, though I may not have understood correctly either. At one point I wrote an AU where the setting was heavily influenced by Pacific Rim and Evangelion but the characters and the specific giant fighting robot details were all me.

Re: Fan content for Crossovers (Mosaic)

[ilthit]

I have been pondering this as well because I have been writing in a TTRPG setting and I am pretty sure that if I use my original characters, that would be fine for mosaic. It gets fuzzy if I want to use non-player characters provided by the rulebook to interact with my characters. I still think that is probably fine? My character is a member of the Illustrious Qilin Villa sect (provided by the game), why couldn't he interact with the sect's masters (NPCs from the book)? For my conscience, I would probably try to keep the focus on my OC though.

It does create a situation where I can technically call it fanfic, and have my cake and eat it too. I have already been posting fiction like this on AO3 as fanfic for the game.

Re: Fan content for Crossovers (Mosaic)

[silvercat17]

I've seen older mosaics with fandom characters in an original setting, interacting with original characters.

Re: Fan content for Crossovers (Mosaic)

[silvercat17]

I'm writing up some examples of possibilities, which is a bit challenging as I'm notoriously out to date about current fandoms

Re: Fan content for Crossovers (Mosaic)

[silvercat17]

Okay, these are all things I'd consider acceptable for mosaic. Opinions? Other examples that you'd like opinions on?

1. Your characters in the main part of the setting of a media property (Bob and Alice in the Star Wars universe)
- A. Bob is a Jedi and argues with the known characters on the Jedi Council (AU only)
- B. Bob is a Jedi (AU only) but none of the story involves characters we know
- C. Bob is a Jedi and Alice is a Sith (AU only) but none of the story involves characters we know
- D. Bob and Alice are random characters in the background of Coruscant with their own story going on. Jedi and Sith never come up or are only slightly mentioned. (borderline on required to be an AU)

2. Alt Universe story only - Your characters acting out the plot of a media property (Bob replaces Crowley and Alex replaces Aziraphale in the Good Omens story) (borderline if allowed at all)

3. Alt Universe story only - Your characters interacting with the plot of a media property (Bob in London while the plot of Good Omens is happening in the background)

4. Your characters are doing their thing in a corner of a media property (Bob and Alice live on Tattooine)
- A. Bob and Alice live on Tattooine decades before anything we know about
- B. Bob and Alice live on Tattooine during events depicted but far away from Mos Eisly, Jabba, or anything else we know about. Jawas and Tuskens might be mentioned or show up briefly.
- C. Your story is mythology from a desert planet. Jedi, the Sarlaac pit, Tusken warriors, Jawas, and other Star Wars concepts aren't mentioned. Other creatures, like the giant riding lizards, might show up. (borderline whether needs to be marked as mosaic at all, depending on how many Star Wars specific details show up)

5. Your characters go on Jeopardy or Antiques Roadshow. (could be AU or in the main canon, depending on how long it lasts and how much influence it has on the story)

6. A minor character from a media property is dropped into your story (Christine Chapel from Star Trek the Original Series is Bob's doctor)
- A. Bob sees her every chapter but she doesn't influence the plot
- B. Bob and Christine get romantically involved
- C. Bob sees her once and it sets off a major event. She otherwise doesn't show up

These last ones, in my opinion, could be marked as mosaic or not commented on at all (...if not acceptable then everything I posted has to count as mosaic), as most of them happen in properties often with no issues:

7. A major character from a media property is used as inspiration for characters, but the story is completely different. (Luke in New York is based on Luke Skywalker. He grew up on a farm in Arizona with his aunt and uncle. He works in a coffee shop and solves mysteries)

8. Characters are obviously inspired by a media property character, but their name, life, etc are substantially different. (What TVtropes calls either an Expy or Captain Ersatz) (Superman -> Captain Marvel/Shazam and, uh, dozens others - Samaritan, Statesman, Plutonian, Hyperion, Supreme, Sentry...)

9. Main or minor character is a media property species but has nothing to do with the media story or any of its characters and are called something else (Bob is an Andorian- Star Trek species with blue skin and antenna- in a modern New York filled with non-Star Trek non-humans and humans, but is called a Rodna)

10. Minor character is obviously a media property character or named after a media property character. (In a short scene, Bob buys a book from Mr. Fell, aka Aziraphale from Good Omens, but nothing Good Omens related happens)

Collage modification?

[silvercat17]

I'd also like to make a slight modification to collage - that using public domain or open-source settings, items, and characters also falls under collage.

This would have to be minor uses of characters - just because Dracula is public domain, doesn't mean you can write a story starring Mina, Van Helsing, and Jonathan Harker. But you could do something like Roger Rabbit or Wreck-it Ralph (I think - I haven't seen it) and have a bunch of characters show up.

The possible exception would be open-source characters, like Jenny Everywhere, which aren't owned by anyone and never were.

Some relevant links:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Website/TheFreeUniverse
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PublicDomainCharacter - especially Other public domain characters in media Web Original
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PublicDomainCanonWelding

What are people's thoughts? Would this be welcome or too confusing?

Re: Collage modification?

[thisbluespirit]

I always understood the point of collage to be collaboration between members of this comm and therefore encouraging people to interact and get into each other's canon at least to a limited enough extent to do it, something which can help a lot with the general life and activity of the comm - so using public domain characters seems to me to defeat the object, and it's not as if we don't have the crossover option here already if someone wants to use some element of an existing published canon.

ETA: Maybe we could have a game of some sort to encourage collage, if you're concerned about it not being done - people could ask each other questions about how such canon merges/crossovers might go? They could suggest characters that might be entertaining or fit in well, or give details about the setting that someone needs just to do a little drabble or ficlet.

(I have my own suggestion for something, but I'll come back later and put that in a separate comment.)

Re: Collage modification?

[ilthit]

I thought this too and I think that's a fun and valuable kind of goal to have.

So it is really a question of using characters that are not original? Is mosaic a world (or concept) borrowed from a media source with all original characters, or with original characters as the main/POV characters but allowing borrowed characters from the canon in minor roles?

Or, if we want to hardline ban Tony Stark but allow open source characters, there could be a new style or supply that specifies interaction with open source characters allowed, and mosaic cannot use borrowed characters at all.

Re: Collage modification?

[ilthit]

Also I have not familiarised myself enough with any of the rainbowfic writers' canons to feel confident in writing in those settings. I made intros and storylists for my own settings hoping to make them more accessible, but also I have written relatively little in all of them, making the canons pretty open, but then there is also the awkwardness of asking.

I don't know if it's been done before, but we could maybe have a roll call post, or self promo post, for people who want to offer their worlds to be collaged. In replies, could add descriptions to entice people, and advice on how to write in that setting, and how much they would really need to read/absorb to do it with confidence. It lowers the bar significantly.

Re: Collage modification?

[wallwalker]

Agreeing, especially with the ETA. I know that can be a bit tough for some writers (like me) who have a good idea of character but are still trying to work out setting and other background information. But it's a good exercise to encourage people to try to flesh out those details.

Re: Collage modification?

[silvercat17]

... actually it's because I don't like writing in other people's worlds because I'm bad about reading other people's fic (and have been having problems reading in general for the past few years), but iirc collage is required for some accomplishments.

But you make a good point

Re: Collage modification?

[bookblather]

This seems a bit confusing to me? I'm not sure myself why we would have it, since public domain characters would already fall under mosaic.

Re: Collage modification?

[silvercat17]

Yeah, it doesn't seem like anybody is interested. And consensus seems to be that it'd be great to have a set up for people to share their settings so others can use them. I could set up that, especially since it would slot into my Writers Salon posts well.

Suggestion about increasing numbers of Colours we can have in progress at one time

[thisbluespirit]

I was wondering if we might be able to increase the no. of Colours we can have on the go at any one time? (Not per piece, obv.! But the limit of 5 on how many we can start before we have to finish one to start another.)

Originally on Runaway Tales, they had a limit of 3, and Rainbowfic opted for being more generous with 5, but by the time I got to RaTs way after, it had got so chilled out, there was no limit on the number of Flavours you could have on the go at any one time! XD

I was fine with 5 here when I was just pottering about in the tail end of my old canon, but now that I've switched canons, I've got all this plot on the go, which I don't want to post too far out of order, and my colours were mostly chosen for the old canon, plus I have a Paint-by-Numbers with prompts specifically for the old canon characters (which is lovely and I do want to write them again sometime, but right now I'm in the new canon headspace), and at this point, I keep struggling to avoid hitting a wall just because of the Colour limit.

Since I'm hardly the only one who's switched canons before or will again, maybe it would help others? And I never really noticed the unlimited vs five only making that much difference in how quickly people completed things, between the two comms anyway.

Anyway, suggestion: increase limit from 5, to 6-10, or maybe even more, just to give more flexibility and choice and prevent people getting too stuck if they change canons partway through Colour sets. <3

(Also many, many apologies for all the editing & filling up your inbox - and that, even so, I still can't type straight this morning!!)

Re: Suggestion about increasing numbers of Colours we can have in progress at one time

[himejoshiheart]

increasing the color limit would be a bit nice... 👀 (at bog body)

Re: Suggestion about increasing numbers of Colours we can have in progress at one time

[wallwalker]

I think the hard limit (counting Special Colors) is 6 (I'm still using Side B: Blackstar as a side color using that logic because I still think it's a tragedy no one else wrote for that one.)

I understand the logic, but I also feel like if I was allowed to pick up as many colors as I wanted at any given time, I'd never finish them. So I can understand increasing the limit for whoever wants to work that way but I don't personally think I'd take that offer.

Re: Suggestion about increasing numbers of Colours we can have in progress at one time

[wallwalker]

(Also, using one color per canon set? Couldn't be me. XD)

Re: Suggestion about increasing numbers of Colours we can have in progress at one time

[silvercat17]

(Also many, many apologies for all the editing & filling up your inbox - and that, even so, I still can't type straight this morning!!)

No worries. Seeing my inbox jump from 40 to 70+ was a bit of a shocker, but discussion is good and Just Create is also getting a lot of responses this week.

Re: Suggestion about increasing numbers of Colours we can have in progress at one time

[finch]

I wonder if there's room for keeping the limit but allowing people to put a color "on ice"- there's been events in the past where you could basically give up a challenge you knew you were never going to finish, but it sounds like you think you might come back to these eventually, but maybe the option to put a color "on hold" along with a canon while you work a different one would make sense?

Re: Suggestion about increasing numbers of Colours we can have in progress at one time

[bookblather]

I think we could certainly classify paint-by-number colors differently, but I am a little cautious about increasing the color limit that far, if only because it's difficult to keep track of. How would you feel about a sort of color freezer, where you can freeze one color to add another, and then cycle that back in after you've finished a different one?

[finch]

I have a prototype question! Does it make more sense to have prototype earned by being the first to use a color or the first to complete a color? I feel like the latter seems like more of an accomplishment but it might be a lot harder to track.

[silvercat17]

Yeah, the latter might be better, but it'd be too hard to track, which is why I went with the former. Once we're not getting new colors all the time, prototype will be harder to get - which is why I also included special colors