Canvases, Frames, and Questions of Scale

[finch]

So I was look at completing a diorama (as you do when you're not busy enough at work) and I was thinking about Canvases and Frames. I have so far I've used the "story" tag to mean something closer to "universe" because I don't want to spam the community with two dozen different tags in the same universe. This makes it really difficult to declare something before or after "the story."

For purposes of "supplies and styles" tagging, do y'all think it'd be more in keeping with the spirit to write, say, stories about wee!Robin and his mom, even if timing-wise they'd be set in the middle of other things going on, or to arbitrarily declare that anything before 1850 counts as a Canvas and anything after say 2050 counts as a Frame because that 200 year span is my main focus right now?

(Also, for anyone else who writes in a sprawling universe, what are your favorite ways to keep all your notes and timelines organized? I'm now taking suggestions...)

Comments

[subluxate]

I would say anything that takes place before your main characters come into the story, or after they leave it, counts as Canvas or Frame, definitely. Involving your main characters, I'd go with anything that takes place before or after the central action (which also applies to minor characters, of course).

For instance, with PF, I go with, "Anything before Torey is born is Canvas. Anything involving the mothers before they're involved with Augusto or before Torey is born is Canvas. Anything involving the Connecticut people before Eva and Adamo come into the picture is Canvas. Anything focusing on third gen [the MCs' kids/nieces/nephews] is Frame. Anything after the end of the war is Frame." Even between myself, Geena, and Sara, our definitions differ somewhat. It's difficult to determine with a big universe.

Basically, use your best judgment. It's ultimately your call.

As for keeping things organized, we use indices (four of them! Three for canon, one for AUs), a timeline, text documents, a community just for us with notes (there's a version each on DW and LJ, with different notes--I've been meaning to move stuff to DW and neaten it up), and checking with each other. It's a lot to do, but it helps. You could maybe make a locked journal that you keep notes in so that you can organize things by tags and memories. There are also programs like Scrivener or Celtx.

[finch]

Thanks, that definitely helped.

[subluxate]

Glad to be of service. =)

[isana]

I used to have outlines for both arcs of Iron Plum Blossom, although by now, with all the stories I've written, it's become near useless. Don't think I've updated it since 2009, even. I had an index when I was on LJ, but on the main comm, it's been pretty disorganized, hah.

[finch]

Yeah, I'm at a point where my old attempts have become kind of a mess and I'm thinking about nuking from orbit and starting over...

[shipwreck_light]

Much like everything else in a universe, the "before" and "after" are ultimately at your discretion. So, it's important to pick points that are meaningful and easy to use.

I got ridiculously specific with JoR. Arc 1 starts the instant Roa walks into Sky Plaza 1. It ends exactly ten years later. The arcs also split on very particular instances, which is actually causing a bit of a head-scratchy moment over here right now because there's something that should probably happen which would take place in the gap between two and three.

So be careful and don't do that. It's annoying.

Vespertine, which I keep talking about running here and not doing, splits out a little easier than that. If the characters are physically on Vespertine, it's part of the main story. Before they get there is a canvass and after they leave, a frame.

Anyway, I have four tags so far for the same story and a spreadsheet to handle the chronology of what's written which gets updated that often it's the one linked in my posts as the index.

[finch]

So be careful and don't do that. It's annoying.

LOL.

I try to tag by arc in my fic journal, but I haven't been consistent about it... Thanks for reminding me that I already have tools I'm not using. XD

[leia_solo]

With all my series, I use spreadsheets for the characters of each of them. I keep all my notes for each series in separate notebooks in Evernote. I love Evernote! I have it hooked up to my main computer, my laptop, and my phone.

I also have separate journals here in DW and LJ for each series. (I would say verse, but the latter seven series all share the same verse and I haven't come up with a name for the whole universe yet.)

[finch]

I love Evernote! My current project has... five separate notebooks in Evernote. Possibly I am overthinking this. But I totally use it to write at home, at work and on the bus and keep everything in one place. At least I don't lose things anymore!

[blossomdreams]

I have pages in notebooks dedicated to each canon. For Pleasant Surprise I have family trees that extends to Bernard's grandchildren and the great grandchildren he'll have in the future. I have different folders on my computer dedicated to each story as well.

For me a Canvas counts during the war when Adam was still a kid and Bernard was trying to clean things up. Technically Axel's death also counts as a canvas. Frame starts with Bello and Christophe's children.

For Changing Tides before Nate and Helen's relationship is canvas after when they have their children is frame. It's pretty much the same for Fixed Dreams as well.

I have to type up everything, but at the moment everything is written in a notebook even the songs I associate them with.

[finch]

Oh man, family trees. I can never seem to work those out, so props for you for keeping them organized.

Thanks, btw. Hearing how other people define "canvas" and "frame" really does help.

[blossomdreams]

That's actually the easiest thing for me to do trying to write how they all got there is hard. XD

You're welcome! Always available for help. :)

[kay_brooke]

Notes. Lots and lots of notes. On my computer I have each project in its own folder, with subfolders containing time lines, character details, story outlines, scraps of scenes that I might use somewhere, worldbuilding notes, etc. There are probably better ways of organizing stuff, but I've never taken the time to learn how to use the software that's meant to be used for organizing notes.

[finch]

This is really helpful - I tend to dump notes on top of other notes and I think it might be easier if I actually divided my notes up more. I mean, I use a notetaking program with a search feature, I might as well take advantage of that.

[rosarum]

I tend to go with creating bullet point timelines as a Frame and breaking them down further into different character arcs within that document.

[shadowsong26]

I'm not a particularly organized writer--I keep things organized mostly by when I wrote them. I have a timeline, but I don't update it very often. I keep my family trees and map (for Feredar) handy, because I need to reference those a lot. Basically, my advice might not be the best in the world for organization, but trying to keep an updated timeline and any particular information you know you're going to need easy to find will probably go a long way.

In terms of defining canvas and frame, what I do is I look at my sprawling world/timeline and identify the novel-length story I'd want new readers to start with, if I'd managed to publish several in that world. For Feredar, it's the story of the Feredar War--anything before Isshiri arrives in Feredar is a canvas, anything after Andrell's coronation is a frame. There's some slight overlap--I think stories with Taz run a little later without being called frames, for example--but that's the general rule. (Lux and The Institute Files are more complicated, since I don't have as clear an idea of timeline for them. I have a specific start point for Lux, but no end point, and I don't even have that for The Institute Files.)